January 25, 2005

STILL CONFUSED

Recently I asked Nick of Patriot Paradox a question on getting one's sins forgiven:

On the confessing sins part... how do you know if you confessed ALL of them? I mean, *I* have impure thoughts (which, if I remember correctly, are just as bad as the act) dozens of times a day. Do I have to immediately confess, or do I save it up for the end of the day & ask for blanket forgiveness? And if I'm not feeling sincerely contrite at the moment of confession, am I not forgiven those sins?

I'm serious about these questions.

The mechanics of redemption have always eluded my understanding.

Nick busted his butt trying to answer, however - although the response was interesting - it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I understand the general THEORY of Christian forgiveness, I'm wondering how it works day-to-day in PRACTICE.

I guess what I'm wondering is two-fold:

1) Can you ask for forgiveness & have Jesus say "Mmmmm... no... you didn't really mean it. You've still got a black mark on your soul."

2) Can you sin, plan to ask for forgiveness later (or still be in that hard-hearted "I didn't do anything wrong" stage), die in the meantime, then go to hell because you didn't take care of the problem right away?

Or perhaps you get credit for good intentions?

I'm just REALLY fuzzy on the specifics, since I don't do it myself. Regular practitioners are encourage to attempt a clarification.

Including Nick

Posted by: Harvey at 09:57 PM | Comments (3) | Add Comment
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1 Coming from a Protestant (reformed Baptist, don't ask) i've always seen confession as a way of saying "Lord, i screwed up today. We both know i screwed up, and i'm sorry for it. we both know i'll screw up again someday, but i'll try to work on keeping this particular screwup from happenning again. Thank you." Actually, that was almost verbatim the prayer i said every so often when the guilt became too much. Now was that the panacea that cured my guilt, absolutely not, but it kept me from the bottle, gave me that toehold back into clean life that i could use to clamber my ass back into society. Any further clarification i gladly welcome through e-mail. T

Posted by: tommy at January 26, 2005 12:08 AM (VCRgB)

2 If my foggy Catholic memory serves me right, the church holds a mass confessional twice per year (just before Christmas and Easter). You go, they do the forgiveness mass and all you sins of the past are forgiven. Clean slate to start over. But remember Jesus died for our sins, so as long as we confess we go to heaven.

Posted by: Machelle at January 26, 2005 07:28 AM (ZAyoW)

3 "Can you ask for forgiveness & have Jesus say 'Mmmmm... no... you didn't really mean it. You've still got a black mark on your soul.'" If Jesus were ever to say "you didn't really mean it," then you really didn't mean it. In other words, you weren't actually asking forgiveness of your sin(s). So, the answer to this one (on a theoretical level) is "yes." On the other hand, it is really a dog chasing its tail if you're continually wondering "Did I really mean that?" If your heart is so deceitful and so desperately wicked that no one can figure it out (see Jeremiah 17:9), who can ever say with absolute confidence that he's *really* meant anything? As much as contemporary me-centered spirituality hates to admit it, our salvation -- and that includes the moment to moment component of fellowship with Jesus -- is grounded on His promises and His faithfulness to them, not on my wavering faith. As someone somewhere once said, "If we are faithless, he remains faithful; he cannot deny himself." This explains, I think, why the classical corporate confessions of Christendom are so extensive in the "reach" of their acknowledgement of culpability. For example, "Almighty God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Maker of all things, Judge of all men; We acknowledge and bewail our manifold sins and wickedness, Which we, from time to time, most grievously have committed, By thought, word, and deed, Against thy Divine Majesty, Provoking most justly thy wrath and indignation against us. We do earnestly repent, And are heartily sorry for these our misdoings; The remembrance of them is grievous unto us; The burden of them is intolerable. Have mercy upon us, Have mercy upon us, most merciful Father; For thy Son our Lord Jesus ChristÂ’s sake, Forgive us all that is past; And grant that we may ever hereafter Serve and please thee In newness of life, To the honour and glory of thy Name; Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Can one pray such a prayer and not mean it? You betcha! That would be very much like a man trapped in a hole who won't stop digging. But long experience with this prayer (verified by the testimony of many others) shows me that while praying it a multitude of my own personal, individual, and specific sins come to mind. And, what about all those I forgot? Well, that prayer appeals for mercy on those as well. If Christ is faithful to his promises, we have his forgiveness. If he is not faithful, no amount of "really meaning it" is going to make any difference. A final comment on confession, particularly as to the "really meaning it" end of things -- depending on the circumstances and nature of the sin(s), it is sometimes true that the soul burdened by guilt can find no relief unless the dirty deed(s) are confessed openly -- that is, out loud to someone else. Yes, I'm talking about confession to a priest, or your pastor, or the one against whom you have sinned. This isn't a Catholic or Orthodox thing, it's a Bible thing (cf. James 5:16). Indeed, Protestants actually do this all the time, but they call it going to the Pastor for counseling rather than going to the priest for confession! Finally, you asked "Can you sin, plan to ask for forgiveness later ... die in the meantime, then go to hell because you didn't take care of the problem right away?" The answer to this one depends on how you construe the economy of salvation, whether you believe that you can lose your salvation or not, etc. If your eternal destiny depends on what your current statement of accounts is like at the moment God calls the end of your game, then the answer will be "Yes, you will go to hell." If your eternal destiny depends on what Christ did for you at the cross, long before you ever committed a single one of those sins, then the answer will be "No, you will not go to hell." In the latter case, it also means that there could be eternal consequences to your obstinacy, or your cynical trafficing in the grace of God (cf. 1 Cor. 3:9-15; 5:1-5).

Posted by: Brother Quotidian at January 26, 2005 07:59 AM (q2EgW)

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