January 26, 2005

NEXT THEOLOGICAL TOPIC

After reading Brother Quotidian's comment to my post on forgiveness of sin, I think I've discovered the crux of my quandry.

After you've become "saved" CAN you lose your salvation through backsliding, and if so, how?

For example, I just can't imagine that that swindling pig Jim Bakker will make it past the pearly gates, even though I'm sure he was sincere in his faith before the money started rolling in.

And maybe he's sincerely repented SINCE then, but when the cops first kicked down the door in 1988 and slapped the cuffs on him, if he would've dropped dead of a heart attack, I'm thinking flaming pit.

All thoughts welcome, and remember that I'm not a practitioner, so please, whenever possible, speak in parables, use small words, and type slowly.

Posted by: Harvey at 02:35 PM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
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1 F i r s t. (Slow enough?) I think you can backslide. (stops, waits, types slower)I also think that if you repent for sins you committed knowing that you will commit them again, you have not truly repented. Thus firey pits of hell await thee.

Posted by: Oddybobo at January 26, 2005 02:57 PM (6Gm0j)

2 As long as in his last gasping breath he repents his sins he's going to the pearly gates. Take for example death row inmates (saw a show on this). Just before the walk of death they have a preist visit, they do confession, he's forgiven, he gets in the pearly gates because he has repented. But again were back to the jesus died for our sins, so were really safe with almost whatever we do.

Posted by: Machelle at January 26, 2005 03:00 PM (ZAyoW)

3 Those that believe in "once saved, always saved" handle backsliding this way: "Was he truly repentant? Was he ever saved to begin with?" Of course, those that believe it's possible to lose your salvation would argue "Yes, he was saved, but fell away." To me, it comes down to this: If someone goes to Hell because he was never saved to begin with, or ... If someone goes to Hell because he fell away ... Either way, he's going to Hell. And that's what matters.

Posted by: basil at January 26, 2005 04:35 PM (DOCuN)

4 can you backslide, absolutely. But every time i have asked that questioni've always been told that you can only "lose" your salvation by rejecting the Lord in your heart. Now, i think this goes beyond simply backsliding, or half assed repenting, more to a total loathing with everything the Lord offers. Think Mel Gibson's character in Signs level of rejection. But then, i'm an engineer, not a theologian.

Posted by: tommy at January 26, 2005 06:43 PM (VCRgB)

5 Hi, Harv. The way that I've heard it explained, with regard to sin and redemption, once you have come to a saving knowledge of the love and sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ, to use the analogy of a passenger on a ship, though you may "backslide", you'll fall ONBOARD rather than OVERboard. The apostle Paul, even in his exhaulted state of having physically met & received Christ, was ashamed in himself, saying (loosly quoted), "that which I don't want to do (sin), I do, but that which I WANT to do, I do not do." This is the human condition from the beginning of time to the end. If we were already perfect in word and deed, we wouldn't require a Savior.

Posted by: brandy at January 27, 2005 08:47 AM (xrSNX)

6 With regards to death row inmates or mafioso types gasping their last breaths: if they're truly sorry and not just pretending, then yes, they will be forgiven. However, a truly repentant heart is required. Yuo can't just say, "I'm sorry, God. Now forgive before I cheat on my wife again." The Almighty can't be fooled by three card Monty requests for forgiveness, in which the sinner isn't actually sorry. As for salvation, that's pretty clear cut, at least from my perspective. If you've truly accepted Jesus into your heart as your Lord and Savior, you cannot lose salvation. However, your fellowship with the Lord can change based. Think of it this way: if you have a son, he will always be your son; that relationship will never change. But if the two of you have a falling out and don't speakm then your fellowship has changed. He's still your son, but you aren't really that close. In a similar vein, if you've truly accepted Jesus into your heart, your relationship as one of God's children cannot change. What can change, though, is your fellowship with the Lord. He could become a stranger to you. Having said all that, I'm still not entirely convinced. I have this image of me standing at the Pearly Gates on Judgement Day and hearing God say, "How in the world did you come up with that?! That's not what I meant at ALL!" Either that, or he'll be too busy laughing at me to say anything.

Posted by: physics geek at January 27, 2005 10:45 AM (Xvrs7)

7 In my experience and mind u i have had extensive experince in this i been to church since i was little and i been to the altar hundreds of times one can never know peace really if a person believe in saved and lost and saved and lost what never done me any good only i know this u can make god mad cause it brings a bad testimony to others at the true saving power i do believe in i draw my strenth from childhood when i was in bible school child like faith can sometimes get lost alot of times in religion i know i been there been afraid only to go to the altar and feel the same returning later one can only be drawn by god to be saved and once saved i though i would not want to return to my previous position doubt played a big role that is one thing to stay away from nature is a good example of god jesus right off helps with doubt. god saved me when i stopped i made an effort. Thats my story.

Posted by: at March 24, 2005 12:09 AM (9anO8)

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